The Trial of Charles Taylor

12:00 (12:30 with the delay in video and audio): Court is back in session following the mid-morning break.

Chief Prosecutor Stephen Rapp continues the direct examination of former Liberian President Moses Blah:

Pros: You were talking about this bureau of property reacquisition. Who were the rightful owners?

Wit: The people who owned the property before Tolbert took power.

Pros: What was your job?

Wit: To make sure that these properties were given to their rightful owners

Pros: Did you succeed in your job?

Wit; Very well, but I had to quit because there was a fight with the government and they didn’t want me there any more. Some people were trying to claim properties that were not theirs.

Pros: Was there something you were doing wrong?

Wit: I don’t think so.

Pros; Were you accused?

Wit: No.

Pros: You mentioned Thomas Quiwonkpa. Did you have a relationship with him?

Wit: He was my first cousin.

Pros: Did you seek assistance from him after leaving that job?

Wit: I went to my village and rested and farmed on my father’s farm.

Pros: Let’s move to 1985. What happened that year?

Wit: There was big conflict between Doe and Quiwonkpa. If you spoke Gio or Mano at that time, you would be arrested. We fled to Côte d’Ivoire. Doe wanted to remove Quiwonkpa and our tribe didn’t like that.

Pros: Was Quiwonkpa accused of anything?

Wit; Yes. And he didn’t like the job he was given.

Pros; What happened to him?

Wit: He fled to his village and he was arrested and killed.

Pros; Who killed him?

Wit: Doe.

Pros: Why did you flee?

Wit: Because I was his cousin.

Pros; Who was doing the hunting?

Wit: Doe ordered that the Gio and Mano should be arrested and investigated to know their involvement with Quiwonkpa.

Pros: Who are the Mano tribe?

Wit: One of the two major tribes in Nimba.

Pros: Why were they searching for their tribes?

Wit: Because of Quiwonkpa.

Pros; What happened to those who did not escape.

Wit: Thousands of my tribesmen were killed or arrested, including my former wife.

Pros: Was there a special unit that was doing this?

Wit: Yes, SATU. They reported directly to the president.

Pros; Where did you go?

Wit: Côte d’Ivoire.

Pros: Who went with you?

Wit: We were many. General Varney, Gen. Prince Johnson, a whole lot of people.

Pros: What did you do there?

Wit: We were planning how to get back. We were particularly in Danane and Bouyen.

Pros: In what part of Côte d’Ivoire?

Wit: In the Gio tribe zone just across the border from Liberia.

Pros: You said you planned to do something. What were you planning?

Wit: To regroup and come back to Liberia to overthrow the government.

Pros: Did you seek any assistance?

Wit: A man came called Alfred Mehn, popularly called Godfather.

Pros: What assistance did he provide?

Wit: He came with word from Charles Taylor.

Pros: Did you know anything about him?

Wit: Not at that point.

Pros: Did Mehn tell you about Taylor?

Wit: Yes, he said he was detained in Ghana because he was going to overthrow the government of Liberia. But his wife was pressing in Burkina and we should go and meet her there.

Pros: Did Mehn say what assistance would be provided?

Wit: He said we should go to Burkina.

Pros; Did you go to Burkina Faso?

Wit: Yes. Initially we were about 22.

Pros; How did you get there?

Wit: A transport bus, and later from Abidjan by train.

Pros; Did you receive assistance to make that travel?

Wit: Yes, we received transport, food and then lodging in Ougadougou.

Pros: Who provided this assistance?

Wit: Mrs. Taylor, through Alfred Mehn.

Pros; How much?

Wit: The amount was not recorded, but we had enough to eat and a place to stay.

Pros: Where did you stay?

Wit: In a military camp. And military vehicles brought our food. We exercised there: running and long jump. We were keeping fit.

Pros; Who was the leader of Burkina Faso?

Wit: Thomas Sankara, but he was overthrown and Blaise Compoare took over the country briefly after we got there.

Pros: For how long did you remain in Burkina?

Wit: For about 6 months.

Pros: You told us that Mehn mentioned that Agnes Taylor would assist you in Burkina. Did you meet her?

Wit: Yes, on several occasions. The first meeting we had with her, she said that Mr. Taylor was detained by the government of Ghana for plotting to invade Liberia. She offered assistance for us to form a military group.

Pros: Did you numbers change in Burkina Faso?

Wit: No, not until later.

Pros: Did your group have a name at this point?

Wit: No.

Pros: Where did she arrange for you to go?

Wit: We moved to Tripoli, Libya. The 22 of us flew Aeroflot to Tripoli.

Pros: Where did you go?

Wit: We were taken directly to a military base, Tuajura Camp.

Pros: When did others join you?

Wit; We were in the camp for a month or two, then 47 men came to join our group.

Pros: Did your group grow beyond that?

Wit: Yes, we grew to 180.

Pros: How long did that take?

Wit: 2-3 months.

Pros: What did you do in the camp?

Wit: Military training, drills, assembly and disassembly of AK-47s, artillery pieces, military weapons, and ground-to-air missiles.

Pros: Who trained you?

Wit: We were trained by the Libyans. A man named Mohammed led the trainings. From time to time the trainers changed. It was not important to know their names.

Pros: Did Agnes Taylor come with you?

Wit: No.

Pros; Did you ever see Charles Taylor in Burkina Faso?

Wit: It was not until the 45 man group arrived that Taylor appeared. That was in the camp in Libya. It was the first time I saw Mr. Charles Taylor.

Pros: When did Taylor come in the sequence of additions?

Wit: He was very often there.

Pros; Did he come before your group reached 180 men?

Wit: Yes.

Pros: What did he do the first time he came?

Wit: He called a formation and introduced himself and said we were his organization, and that the organization was named the National Patriotic Front of Liberia.

Pros: Did he ever appoint anyone under him to supervise when he was not there?

Wit: Yes, one Cooper Miller and Augustine Wright was his deputy.

Pros: You said he came on several occasions. What did he do after the first time?

Wit: He inspected the training and left instructions. He said he had come to liberate the people of Liberia, especially in Nimba. That’s the kind of encouraging words he gave.

Pros: Where did he go when he wasn’t at the camp?

Wit: He said he was based in Burkina Faso at the time.

Pros: Did he say anything else?

Wit: No, and we didn’t ask. The NPFL was a military organization.

Pros: You mentioned Mr. Cooper Miller and Augustine Wright. Did they remain his deputies?

Wit: No, they got implicated in a coup to take over from Taylor. Once he didn’t return on time and these men decided to take over the organization. Cooper declared himself president and Wright his vice president. When Taylor returned, he decided to take these two men away. He said he was taking them to Burkina Faso until after the revolution. At that point, Isaac Musa was brought in as a commander in place of Miller and he appointed me as Adjutant in charge of training under Musa.

Pros: What happened to Miller and Wright?

Wit: He said he took them away to Burkina Faso. I learned later they had been

Pros: Who appointed you as Adjutant?

Wit: Mr. Taylor.

Pros: You mentioned security people on the ground who represented to Taylor?

Wit: He had his own network watching. I wouldn’t know. They were there among our group.

Pros: You said Taylor appointed you as Adjutant. What was the full title?

Wit: I was Adjutant General. Taylor appointed me and I was in charge of training.

Pros: What were your responsibilities?

Wit: I was responsible for people in training, seeing how good they were. I recorded these things.

Pros: What did you do with your evaluations?

Wit: I reported them to Taylor.

Pros: Would you describe your first conversation with Taylor about this, how did it go?

Wit: It went well. He appreciated the report.

Pros: Describe your relationship with him at this time.

Wit; It was good. He said I was doing well.

Pros: Did you discover family ties with Taylor?

Wit: His wife Tupe Taylor was my first cousin. I knew before the training but I did not tell him.

Judge Doherty: I thought the wife was called Agnes.

Pros: What number wife was Tupe Taylor?

Wit: His first wife. Later on Agnes came in.

Pros: How long were you in the camp in Libya?

Wit: About a year and a half.

Pros: Were there other nationalities?

Wit: Yes. Gambians had just finished their training and went to overthrow their government but were not successful and came back. We met Filipinos and a few Sierra Leoneans.

Pros: Who was the leader of the Gambians?

Wit: Dr. Manneh.

Pros: Did you ever see him in Libya?

Wit: I met him on one or two occasions in Mataba.

Pros: What was that?

Wit: An organization established by Gaddafi to assist any oppressed group to overthrow your government.

Pros: Where was the Mataba located?

Wit: In Tripoli town itself, not very far from the camp.

Pros; You said you talked to the Gambians about what they’d done in their country. What did they say?

Wit: That they’d trained where we were.

Pros: Who was the leader of the Sierra Leoneans?

Wit: Foday Sankoh.

Pros: How many Sierra Leoneans were in the camp?

Wit: Your Honors, I wish to urinate please.

[pause while witness is escorted from the courtroom, then brought back]

Pros: How many Sierra Leoneans were in the camp?

Wit: They were in a small group, about 10-15.

Pros: Did you have contact with Sankoh himself?

Wit: Yes, we would train together, meet and talk and joke.

Pros; What was your impression of him?

Wit: I didn’t take him seriously because he made tea for me.

Pros; What did he say about his government.

Wit; That he would overthrow it, starting with 15 men.

Pros: Was there ideology taught in the camp?

Wit: Yes, what we learned in the Mataba was about how to share the wealth of your government - about the distribution of wealth.

Pros: This Mataba, did you receive any books or lesson papers in that ideology?

Wit; The ideology was taught in Mataba itself. They had a school to learn the ideology. You learned about the Green Book. How governments are cheating other governments.

Pros: The physical training, were you able to complete it?

Wit: No, I got sick and was taken to hospital. The doctor found a heart problem and said I should do light work, not physical training.

Pros: Did you take medication?

Wti: Yes.

Pros: Who provided it?

Wit: The authorities of the camp.

Pros: Do you still have this condition?

Wit: Yes.

Pros; Did Taylor have any meetings with other nationalities at that camp?

Wit: Not to my knowledge at that point. The head of the Sierra Leone called him Chief.

Pros: Did any other nationalities call him chief?

Wit: Yes, but they were not close.

Pros: Where did the Liberians go after the training was completed?

Wti: The men were moved to Ougadougou.

Pros; All at the same time?

Wit: No, we were moved according to numbers - sometimes 20-50 men.

Pros: Who organized the transport?

Wit: The Libyans.

Pros: Did anyone in the Liberian group make decisions besides Taylor?

Wit: Nobody.

Pros; Did you go to Burkina Faso?

Wit: Yes.

Pros: At what sequence in the transport of the men did you go?

Wit: I was in the last group.

Pros: Did Taylor tell you what you were going to do in Burkina Faso?

Wit: We knew it was time to attack Liberia.

Pros: Did you take arms with you?

Wit: No.

Pros; Was there discussion of where arms would come from for the invasion?

Wit: Yes, we were told the Libyans would provide arms when the time came.

Pros: Where did you stay in Burkina Faso?

Wit: I lived in the town and the men lived in a military barracks in the military camp. It was a bigger camp than the first time we were there.

Pros: How long did the others stay in that camp?

Wit: For close to a year. The delay was getting too much. We had to relocate the men to Côte d’Ivoire.

Pros; Where in Côte d’Ivoire?

Wit: To those places we previously were because we speak the same dialect. We left the men there, waiting to penetrate Liberia. I waited back with special instructions. Taylor said I should go back to Libya and that the Libyans would give the weapons for me to transport.

Pros: Did you go back to Libya?

Wit: Not immediately. Libya delayed until Christmas Eve 1989. The Libyans came and said that my chief had gone ahead and invaded with shotguns and cutlasses, that it was very dangerous. That we should speak with Blaise Compoare and get weapons.

Pros: At the time they spoke to you about the attack by Taylor’s forces into Liberia, did you know anything about the attack?

Wit: No.

Pros: Were the Libyans happy or unhappy about this?

Wit: Unhappy. They were not informed.

Pros: Did they tell you why they hadn’t given you the go-ahead?

Wit: They said they were doing it tactically because the Americans had sanctions on them.

Pros: Did you talk to Taylor about your conversation with the Libyans?

Wit: Yes, when I returned to Ougadougou. He had left to get weapons that the Libyans were sending through Blaise Compoare. I had to follow him and I told him.

Pros: Did you ever tell Taylor that the Libyans were angry with him?

Wit: Yes. He wasn’t happy. He was disappointed.

Pros: Did you receive any other assignment from Taylor at this time?

Wit: When we were the deep into the war, I became inspector general of the NPFL>

Pros; In Burkina Faso, did he give you another assignment at that time?

Wit: No.

Pros: Where did you go from Burkina Faso?

Wit: To Abidjan. I was instructed by Taylor to go there for a consignment of arms and ammunition. It was already in position. The gendarmerie was in possession of it. I went to see the Defense Minister: Cone Coffi (ph) in the Houphoet-Boigny administration.

Pros: Did you discuss this consignment with the Ivorian defense minister?

Wit: Yes. He said they did not have money and they didn’t want the military trucks to transport the materials, so they had to find civilian trucks. He said if we had money to pay for the trucks, then it would be ready.

Pros: Did you receive the money for the trucks?

Wit: No, not at that point.

Pros: Did he say why the transport couldn’t go another way?

Wit: He said we had to hide it.

Pros: When you were in Côte d’Ivoire, did you receive news about the NPFL attack in Liberia?

Wit: No, I didn’t hear a word from them.

Pros; Did you go elsewhere in Côte d’Ivoire?

Wit: Yes, I was called by him on one occasion. Prince Barkley was sent to find out what the delay was, and I explained that we needed money for the trucks. He went back to the border, and we were trying to transfer the weapons to Prince Johnson in our group who had broken away. When I got back to Gborpleh, I was arrested.

Pros: What was Gborpleh?

Wit; Our first camp.

Pros: Did anyone tell you why you were being asked to go to Gborpleh?

Wit: No, ________ I didn’t even know Prince Johnson had broken away. Taylor arrested me when I got to Gborpleh. There were security units and small boy units there.

Pros; What role did the small boy units play?

Wit: They were reasonable people. They gave me water. They were aggressive.

Pros; What was the responsibility of the Small Boys Units with you?

Wit; They arrested people and wanted to kill me. I regretted for being a member of the NPFL at that moment.

Pros: Is that the first time you’d seen Small Boys Units?

Wit: Yes. Everyone had a Small Boy Unit with them.

Pros; How old were they?

Wit: As young as 15, 14, 13, some were younger than that.

Pros: Did anyone tell you why small boys were used?

Wit: Because they were unreasonable and had no sense of direction. You could tell them anything and it would happen immediately.

Pros; How were they recruited?

Wit: Some came voluntarily, some were captured by NPFL forces.

Pros: Who actually physically arrested you?

Wit: It was done by Benjamin Yeaten personally. He said the chief would see me the next day?

Pros: Did you see the chief the next day?

Wit: No, not until he came back from Abidjan. But the defense minister told Taylor that the accusations against me weren’t true. So Taylor returned to Gborpleh immediately and brought me food. That morning he pulled me out of the cell and told the commanders to apologize to me. He said they had lied on me.

Pros: How long were you detained?

Wit: I was in detention for about 8-9 days, a week. I can’t say exactly.

Pros: How did you find out about this conversation between Taylor and the Ivorian defense minister?

Wit: Taylor told me upon his return.

Pros: During the time you were in detention, did you hear what you were being charged with?

Wit: Yes, that I was transferring NPFL equipment to Prince Johnson.

Pros: After Taylor ordered you freed, what did you do next?

Wit: I was asked to go back to Abidjan. The weapons were there. He asked me to bring them. I said no, I will not go there. There were other charges against me, that I had brought medicine that were buried in the ground. But I went on in the ground…

Pros; Had you buried medicine?

Wit: No.

Pros: Who alleged that you’d done that?

Wit: It was Benjamin who discovered that, according to him.

Pros: What did you do in Abidjan?

Wit: The minister said the money had been paid and everything was in the trucks. The trucks took the weapons into Liberia. They were AK-47s, AK-47 rounds, some BZT, some GMG, and most of it was rounds for RPG weapons together with the ammunition.

Pros: What were BZT?

Wit: Belt-fed machine guns.

Pros; Do you know where those weapons came from originally?

Wit: No.

Pros; Do you know where they were before Abidjan?

Wit: No.

Pros; You were accused of assisting Prince Johnson. Did you know what he was doing at the time of your arrest?

Wit: He had the Independent NPFL. He was saying that he was still with Taylor and recruiting people.

Pros: When you got to Liberia, did you find out what had happened in Liberia?

Wit: When I got to Gborpleh, the NPFL was advancing, doing very well. But we were fighting Prince Johnson too.

Pros: When the NPFL group first crossed into Liberia, who was the field commander?

Wit: Isaac Musa, but he got afraid when there was an exchange of fire. He ran back to Côte d’Ivoire. Prince Johnson took his place then. This was back in Burkina.

Pros; When the forces crossed into Liberia, was there a headquarters?

Wit: Yes, Gborpleh.

Pros: And before that?

Wit: Butuo, but it was not a real headquarters.

Pros: Did you determine whether Taylor had been present during the invasion of Liberia?

Wit: Yes, he crossed into Butuo, and went to Benjamin Yeaten’s home, Tiaplay. He went on foot himself.

Pros; Did Taylor remain in Liberia all the time in the early phases of the conflict?

Wit: Yes.

Pros: Did he take any missions other than the mission you described to Abidjan to find out about the arms?

Wit: Yes, he would leave the country to get arms.

Pros; You described the movements of Johnson and Taylor forces. What were the sizes of these groups?

Wit: The NPFL were greater than Prince Johnson’s group, but as the fighting went on, they almost became 50-50.

Pros: By 1990 who controlled what?

Wit: Taylor controlled about 90% of the country, and Johnson about 5%. Johnson was not holding territory, but trying to take Monrovia.

Pros: Did the conflict between Johnson and Taylor continue through 1990?

Wit: Yes, and continued until Taylor was president.

Pros: Did you get another assignment from Taylor?

Wit: Yes, I became Inspector General of the NPFL in 1990.

Pros; What were your responsibilities?

Wit: I was responsible for men doing illegal acts: raping, looting, illegal killings.

Pros; What kind of punishments were there for these things?

Wit: Execution or going to jail.

Pros: Could you order anyone executed?

Wit: No, only Taylor had that authority.

Pros: Were any violators executed?

Wit: Yes, on some occasions - on 2-3 occasions.

Pros: Was there anyone executed for killing civilians?

Wit: Yes, when the brother of Taylor was killed in an ambush.

Pros: Did you investigate in that case?

Wit: No.

Pros: Was there any investigation that you did as inspector general?

Wit: Yes, I inspected a case of a fighter who killed a Lebanese shopkeeper and took money from him. He admitted he was guilty. I reported it to headquarters. Taylor ordered me to execute him.

Pros: Were orders written or oral?

Wit: It was usually signed in green ink. If you see green ink and see your name above, you have to be watchful. It’s an order from the commander of the NPFL.

Pros: Were you there for the execution?

Wit: Yes.

Pros: What role did you play in the execution?

Wit: I was watching.

Pros: Did you ever shoot anyone yourself?

Wit: No.

Pros: Were you present for other executions?

Wit: no.

1:30 (2:00 with the delay in video and audio): Judge Doherty: It’s time to break for lunch.

Proceedings will resume at 2:30 (3:00 with the delay in video and audio).

9:30 (10:00 with the delay in video and audio): Court is in session.

Chief Prosecutor Stephen Rapp and Lead Defense Counsel Courtenay Griffiths are both present in the courtroom ahead of the anticipated calling of the next witness, Charles Taylor’s former vice president, Moses Blah. Blah is expected to be called once Karmoh Kanneh completes his testimony.

Defense Counsel Terry Munyard continues his cross-examination of prosecution witness Karmoh Kanneh:

Def: Yesterday when we broke off, we were looking at what you told prosecutors about the killing of B.S. Massaquoi. [references document] “Witness states that killing took place in Kenema around the time of the intervention. Witness was present with [others]. Jungle was not present.” Did you tell the prosecution that?

Wit: Yes.

Def: “Witness thinks Massaquoi was killed because he aided the escape of Momoh and Kpaka (ph) - two other Kenema residents who were being detained.” Did you tell them that?

Wit: No.

Def: What did you tell them?

Wit: I didn’t tell them that he helped their escape.

Def: Then let’s look at the hand-written notes, presumably taken while you were speaking. [references document] “B.S. Massaquoi killing?” That suggests that someone asked you what you knew about the B.S. Massaquoi killing. Am I right?

Wit: Yes.

Def; Who was the first person to mention B.S. Massaquoi in this interview? Had you already mentioned B.S. Massaquoi in your conversation with the prosecutors?

Wit: Yes.

Def: When did you previously mention B.S. Massaquoi?

Wit: I can’t recall the date now.

Def: The only reference to the B.S. Massaquoi is this passage we’re looking at. He’s never mentioned in earlier or later interviews with you. How did the subject come up for the first time?

Wit: I’d like you to make the questions a little shorter.

Def: When did you first tell the prosecution that you knew something about a man named B.S. Massaquoi and his killing?

Wit: I can’t recall the date. You have the documents and can look at them.

Def: We are looking at the document for 1 November last year. You have now told us that before you discussed it at this point in this interview, he had already been mentioned. Was that in the same interview, or a previous interview?

Wit: I cannot confirm if they did it about B.S. Massaquoi’s death. That would be on the paper. Whatever you see on the paper would be the correct time.

Def: There is no other paper. So we need to know from you when he was mentioned before this. You say you can’t remember when that was?

Wit: Not at all. It’s on the document and you should look there.

Def: Who was the first person to mention B.S. Massaquoi: you or someone from the prosecution?

Wit: I don’t think that they knew B.S. Massaquoi. It could be me.

Def: Why did you want to tell them about the killing. What was the relevance?

Wit: It must have been when they were asking about Kenema, and maybe I called the name.

Def: Although you called the name at an earlier stage, it is not written?

Wit: This is the statement. I only answered questions asked of me.

Def: So it was the prosecution who first mentioned him?

Wit: I can’t recall.

Def: “B.S. Massaquoi killing?…Occured at Kenema Town around the intervention. Present were Bockarie, witness, Kanneh, [others]…Q: Why was he killed? A: He aided the escape of Momoh and Kpaka.” Now you just said that you hadn’t said that. Do you stand by that?

Wit: I didn’t tell them that.

Def: So this is another invention by the prosecutors?

Wit: Yes.

Def: When it was read back to you, what was your reaction?

Wit: I did not say anything. Maybe I didn’t get it when they read it.

Def: Another thing you didn’t get?

Wit: Not at all.

Def: When it was read back to you in the proofing sessions here in April?

Wit: That’s what I’m talking about.

Def: I was initially referring to your evidence that at the end of every interview, the notes were read back to you. When it was read back to you at the end of the interview, do you recall that?

Wit: Yes, I can still recall. But where it was compiled I was not present.

Def: Did they read it back to you?

Wit: Yes.

Def; Why didn’t you correct it?

Wit: I did not think about that to tell them.

Def: And again when it was read back to you in April, why didn’t you correct it then?

Wit: Maybe it was a mistake; I did not hear it clearly.

Def: You’ve also said that when B.S. Massaquoi was taken away, he was shot and that there was colleague with you named Manoweh (ph). Why didn’t you tell the prosecutors at the time that you gave these names that Manoweh was present?

Wit: It escaped my memory at the time.

Def: You gave a great deal of evidence about this killing last Friday - more than just who was present. Did you tell the prosecution much more than I’ve read this morning from these pages? “Occurred at Kenema…present were SB, witness, Junior Vandy, Capt. Demorah Musa (ph), and Eddie Kanneh…Jungle not present…killed for aiding escape.” Did you tell the prosecution more when you were first being interviewed about it in November?

Wit: Maybe they asked me more about it this time than that time. It depends on the questions asked of you.

Def: Is what I’ve read to you all you told them in November, or did you tell them more that hasn’t been recorded.

Wit: What you’ve read is what I told them. The only problem is where it states about the escape.

Def: Moving to something else: this is the meeting in December 1998 at Bockarie’s house. You gave us evidence last Friday about “Operation Free The Leader” and you told us last week that “Bockarie told us this plan was designed in Monrovia with Mr. Taylor.” Did you tell the prosecutors that when you were giving them a lot of detail about that meeting in November?

Wit: Yes.

Def: Let’s look at what’s been recorded. [references document] I will summarize these paragraphs. Para 48: You went through the names of the people at the meeting. Para 49: Witness states that Bockarie had arrived back from Burkina Faso with materials. Para 50: Discussion of a major operation called “Free the Leader”. Purpose was to take Freetown and free the leader. Para 51: Discussion of 2-flank entry into Freetown. Para 52: Jungle told them that Taylor said there could be no success without money, so they were to hit the main mining areas first. Para 53: Some suggested getting additional manpower from Liberia, but Bockarie rejected this. Para 54: Pademba Road as target. Para 55: Plan was to execute Kabbah and make Foday Sankoh president. Para 56: After meeting, Jungle spoke with Taylor about the meeting. That’s all you told the prosecutors about this in November. No reference there that this plan was designed in Monrovia with Taylor. If that’s the truth, why didn’t you tell prosecutors last November?

Wit: This says that Taylor was involved in this mission: that Jungle said that Taylor told him nothing succeeded without money so we should take the mining areas first. So that proves that Taylor was involved.

Def: Let’s look at the hand-written note. [references document] “Q: Did Jungle or CO Lion say anything about CT. A: Jungle said CT said there would be no success without money. That was why we should hit the mining areas first.” There’s nothing there about Taylor designing the whole plan?

Wit: If someone says to hit the important mining area, what do you think is different from “plan”?

Def: “There was to be a future meeting between Issa and the front-line commanders to discuss this plan, the 2-flank entry.” Did that meeting occur?

Wit: I cannot tell you whether the meeting was held, but the mission went on.

Def: So this meeting didn’t happen?

Judge Doherty: That’s not what he said.

Def: I’ll move on. Are you someone who reads or has read to you UN Security Council Resolutions?

[Brief interruption in video and audio]

Wit: …it could be VOA or BBC or some other station.

Def: So you listened to these programs?

Wit: Yes, at that time.

Def: What is VOA?

Wit: Voice of America.

Def: That’s one of the stations you listened to?

Wit: Only if I met the news.

Def: And when you refer to FM, are you talking about a particular program, or the FM band?

Wit: There are FM radio stations: BBC, VOA and other radio stations. There are a lot of local stations.

Def: Were you doing that regularly in the year 2000?

Wit: No, not frequently, because I had other duties.

Def: What were they?

Wit: I had military operations or other arrangements to attend to. I had my own personal arrangements to attend to.

Def: You don’t have military operations now?

Wit: No.

Def: So that doesn’t prevent you listening to the radio?

Wit: I have some personal operations that would not just allow me to listen to the radio. It’s my choice to listen to the radio or not.

Def: There is nothing to prevent you from listening to the radio this year?

Wit: There are a lot of things: even the batteries, or even the radio you listen to - I would have to buy it.

Def: When in 2000 did you make this trip at which you met Bockarie at his house?

Wit: At that time in 2000, it was almost at the end.

Def: Wasn’t this at the time you were involved with the cease-fire monitoring commission?

Wit: After the cease-fire monitoring.

Def: [references document] “Witness later taken by Yeaten to Monrovia and Sesay arrived the next day. Sesay went to see Taylor to get 50,000 dollars and ammunition…witness saw the money in a bag…went to Kono but cease-fire had been signed…received order not to let disarmament in Kailahun…witness put everything in place for disarmament…UN commander Daniel Opande thanked him.” It was peace time. So this trip to Monrovia when you say you met Bockarie occurred earlier in 2000 than the end.

Wit: It was the end. It was after May. At that time there was no cease fire any more. When we went for that mission, everything had broken down.

Def: Are you saying the prosecution got everything wrong that I just read?

Pros: I object. That was a long piece of information. He should focus the question.

Judge Sebutinde: You’ve gone through this once before and I don’t think the witness disagreed with anything. I, along with the witness, don’t understand the question.

Def: What you’ve just told us [references transcript] was that you met Bockarie after May. You said after you went there, “there was no cease-fire anymore. Before we went for that mission everything had broken down.”

Def: [references document] “Ammo and money taken to Kono, but it was peace time and most areas had disarmed.”

Wit: That’s what I said.

Def: Then why did you say there was no cease fire?

Wit: I said cease-fire monitoring, not cease-fire. Please listen carefully.

Def: You started by saying cease-fire monitoring, but then said “at that time there was no cease-fire anymore.” That’s different from what’s in paragraph seven, where you agreed you told the prosecution that it was peace time when the money and ammo were taken to Kono.

Wit: That’s right.

Def: I’ll move on. You’ve previously told the prosecution that Bockarie told you Taylor was concerned he might hand him over to the Sierra Leone government?

Wit: Taylor was worried about the Special Court.

Def: You’ve never mentioned the Special Court for Sierra Leone in any of your interviews?

Wit: I disagree.

Def: You appreciate that if I’m wrong on that the prosecution will point out my error. When you were interviewed by the prosecution, were you given money for your expenses in attending the interview?

Wit: Yes.

Def: Every time you were interviewed?

Wit: Every time they were responsible for my transport fare and feeding.

Def: Are you saying they actually gave you the money?

Wit: No. When I would come, they pay my transport. I would pay from my pocket and when I would come, they would reimburse.

Def: When you were first interviewed in February 2007, did you have expenses?

Wit: When they met me in Kenema? Yes.

Def: Did you have expenses?

Wit: Yes.

Def: You were interviewed on 27 March in Freetown. Did that involve you in any personal expenditure which was then reimbursed?

Wit: To go to Freetown involves money.

Def: Were you given money for those expenses?

Wit: Yes.

Def: Were you working then?

Wit: What type of work?

Def: Any kind?

Wit: Yes.

Def: Did the fact that you’d gone to see the prosecution result in a loss of earnings at that time?

Wit: I would not say that one made me to lose money because I was willing to go and testify. But my transport fare was refunded to me.

Def: [references document] This is a record of monies spent by the prosecution in connection with your giving information to them. There are a number of receipts listed here. The first three deal with November 2007. Then there’s a receipt for 8 December 2007 for transport. You were interviewed in October 31 and 1 November. The payments on 1 November related to those interviews?

Wit: Yes.

Def: You said there were reimbursed expenses in February and March last year, but there’s no record here of you being given anything by the prosecution at the end of February last year?

Wit: Whatever is on the document. Everything was listed.

Judge Doherty: Were you given anything by the prosecution at the end of February last year?

Wit: Before answering, I would like to know where the meeting was held.

Def: These are the two initial interviews: 28 February and 27 March 2007. For the moment, we’re focused on 28 February in Kenema.

Wit: Yes. The first time they met with me I had money from them.

Def: We have no record of that. On 8 December you were paid 20,000 Leones for transport. You’d finished being interviewed on 1 November, then about five weeks later, you were paid for transport. In fact there are two receipts, one for 20,000 and another for 22,000 for transport/lost wages. Were you seen by the prosecution in December 2008?

Wit: I don’t think December 2008 has reached yet.

Def: December 2007?

Wit: What I want to say about this: whenever we would meet, they would give me some money because I would pay transport to come.

Def: What was it you were doing with the prosecution in December 2007? Were you being interviewed?

Wit: I believe that whatever we were doing is on the document. I did not record it. Whatever we did is documented.

Def: We don’t have any documents of any interviews from December 2007. That’s why I’m asking you.

Wit: You should know the reason why the money was given to me. You cannot just see someone and give him money because he is handsome.

Judge Doherty: There’s no record of an interview of an interview in December 2007, but there are records of two payments.

Wit: I cannot recall if I saw them in December 2007.

Def: Did you ever go see them and not give them information?

Wit: If they invited me for an interview, I must have given them information. I did not keep records.

Def: Monday 4 February 2008, you were given 15,000 for a cell top-up card for communication with your family. Do you remember being given that?

Wit: They bought it for me. They would write down the amount for whatever was bought for me.

Def: [references another document] This is a memorandum of the witness expenses incurred in relation to you by a department of the court called the Witness and Victims Section, or WVS. “Witness attendance allowance - to date a total 816,000 Leones; medical expenses, [another category], and miscellaneous expenses. Grand total is over 2.5 million Leones since 25 March last year. What is witness attendance allowance?

Wit: I don’t know.

Def: Did you get a weekly or monthly amount of money to live on?

Wit: [laughs] No.

Def: What does this mean?

Wit: My understanding is that any time I met with them, I paid my transport costs and return. I was based in Kailahun and was mining. Whenever they invited me I would come and they were responsible for my transportation. Whenever I was with them, they would give me 16,000 Leones on a daily basis.

Def: Who did?

Wit: WVS office. Every day I was with them, they would give me 16,000 Leones. Even when I was invited for…

Def: For further what?

Wit: Further?

Judge Sebutinde: You said a word we didn’t catch.

Wit: I said they gave me 16,000 Leones every day I was with them.

Def: Do you think the 816,000 Leones is that money - the 16,000 per day?

Wit: I cannot tell you.

Def: They’ve not given us more information. You told us yesterday that you arrived here sometime in April?

Wit: Yes.

Def: Are you absolutely sure about that?

Wit: Yes.

Def: Were you here in February?

Wit: I arrived here in April.

Def: I want to ask you about a matter that I’m told involves you. Is this the case: that the WVS staff here in The Netherlands discovered soft drugs brought by you to The Netherlands from Freetown?

Wit: Which type of drugs?

Def: I was told soft drugs.

Wit: I don’t know about that.

Def: Have you been spoken to by two ladies in WVS about bringing soft drugs to The Netherlands from Freetown?

Wit: Yes. People have been telling me that.

Def: Which people have been telling you what?

Wit: The people you mentioned, two ladies, yes.

Def: I’m not asking about two ladies asking you about drugs found in your possession. Were soft drugs found in your possession?

Wit: No.

Def: Madame President, when this information was originally given to us, the TF1 number given to us was the same as this one, but in a different sequence. We’ve inquired from the prosecution that this was the witness in question in this document. That’s why I’m being tentative here. We’ve attempted to clarify whether it was this witness or a different witness with the same three numbers in a different order. Could the prosecution assist?

Judge Doherty: Ms. Bailey?

Prosecutor Julia Bailey: I just need to confer. [prosecution team confers] Can we make a request that we be shown the document that Mr. Munyard has?

Def: Certainly. I think it was sent by the prosecution. I was told by a member of the prosecution that it was WVS who got the numbers wrong in that document.

[prosecution team reviews document, confers]

Pros: We can confirm that 517 should be 571. But this document does not show that these drugs were found in the possession of the witness.

Def: [to witness]: When you said that two ladies talked to you about drugs, what did they say?

Wit: They invited me into their office. It was a woman and one white man. They interviewed me and told me they heard that when I was traveling that I had brought marijuana with me. I told them no, it was wrong information. I told them I did not smoke. I told them they could check in my room. I did not bring marijuana with me and I do not smoke it.

Def: Let me read this. Was the man called Mr. Rash [ph]?

Wit: Rash?

Def: Mr. Alex?

Wit: Yes.

Def: Was there a lady called Nancy who was interpreting?

Wit: Yes.

Def: The report we have says that “This afternoon I discussed the issue of the soft drugs brought from Freetown. Client mentioned he didn’t bring soft drugs to The Netherlands for other clients. Client is not a smoker.” There is nothing in this report that suggests you did not bring soft drugs from Freetown. Did you deny to Mr. Alex that you had brought soft drugs to The Netherlands from Freetown?

Wit: I denied it. I continue to deny it.

Def: What did he tell you about where these drugs were found?

Wit: I did not know if he found drugs. When I arrived, he called me and he said they heard I’d brought marijuana to The Netherlands. I said no, I hadn’t. I don’t even smoke.

Def: I have no other questions for this witness.

Prosecutor Julia Bailey will conduct the re-examination:

Pros: This morning the defense asked about the killing of B.S. Massaquoi. He showed you notes from an interview in November 2007. [references document] You said you did not tell the evidence that you never said Massaquoi aided the escape of Momoh and Kpaka. Did anyone aid their escape?

Wit: yes.

Pros: Who?

Wit: I was the number one person.

Pros: Does that relate to the evidence you gave this court last Friday?

Wit: Yes.

Pros: When you say you were the number one person, what does that mean?

Wit: Lamin Kpaka was a boy child. He was called Battle Group. He met us, he discussed with us and Manoweh. We informed him that the man had plans to kill him, so he should find a way to escape.

Pros; Who was the man who had plans to kill them?

Wit: Sam Bockarie.

Pros: What did you mean you were number one?

Wit: I took part in their escape.

Pros; Were there others who contributed to their escape?

Wit: Yes.

Pros: Yesterday Mr. Munyard asked about the Dec 1998 at Sam Bockarie’s house. During the questioning, he read a list of people to you. There was a name, “Martin”. You agreed he was there. Who was Martin?

Wit: Martin was a Sierra Leonean. The satellite and computer Sam Bockarie had - he worked on them. He was an operator for Bockarie.

Pros: Do you know his full name?

Wit: That is what we called him.

Pros: My final question relates to Saj Musa. Mr. Munyard read a portion of an interview you had on 1 November with prosecutors on that particular issue. I’m going to read to you from March 2008 interview notes. [references document] Did you say this to prosecutors: “During meeting Bockarie referred to Saj Musa as a traitor and those on the mission should go all out to get rid of him…Bockarie said Musa should not live to tell the story…Gullit and Bockarie had been friendly since the overthrow…Gullit and Bockarie had been conniving…those at the meeting were told by Bockarie that Gullit had been given the job of getting rid of Musa during the operation…Bockarie said they could only get rid of Musa in an operation as it was easier this way.”?

Wit: Yes [to all]

Pros: I have no further questions.

Judge Doherty thanks and excuses the witness. The witness leaves the stand.

Pros: I have some documents to tender into evidence.

With one exception, defense has no objection to any of documents and Presiding Judge Teresa Doherty orders that the items marked for identification be entered into evidence.

Defense objects to prosecution request to enter a UN Security Council resolution into evidence because it was not introduced through the witness. Prosecution responds that the document demonstrates that the Special Court for Sierra Leone had been contemplated in 2000, contrary to the defense point during cross-examination that the court had not existed at the time the witness claimed Taylor had been concerned about it.

Judge Sebutinde: But you had a chance to ask about this document on re-examination and you didn’t.

Pros: There would have been no point because on cross-examination the witness said he was unfamiliar with Security Council documents. But the document is relevant to the evidence of this witness.

[Judges confer for 5-10 minutes.]

Presiding Judge Teresa Doherty has ruled, but due to interruptions in the video and audio feed, it is not clear what that ruling was.

Chief Prosecutor Stephen Rapp calls the next witness, former Liberian President Moses Blah. Blah takes the stand, wearing a dark suit, light shirt, purple tie, and gold tie clip. He swears on the Bible to tell the truth.

Prosecutor Rapp asks a series of short questions and the witness relates the following, in English:

Wit: My name is Moses Zeh Blah. I’m Liberian. I’m a retired president of Liberia. I was president for about two months, August-October 11 2003. I was born in Tapeta, lower Nimba County, Liberia. I’m of the Gio tribe. The Gio live in Nimba County, in Ivory Coast and Liberia. I went to school 1958 through 1967. I attended Tapeta primary and secondary schools. I completed secondary school, then went to LAMCO Vocational School. That’s the Liberian-American Mining Company. I was trained as a general mechanic and operation of a pellet plant to turn iron ore into iron in a blast furnace. I was there for about two years. I completed the course and worked there. I obtained a diploma as a general mechanic. I worked for LAMCO for about a year and a half. I worked in the pellet plant, in the operation room. The LAMCO plant is in Burkina, Liberia. I was there until 1977. After LAMCO, I retired because of the heat in the plant. I traveled to Germany to visit a brother and decided to study briefly at a language institute in Hamburg and I studied German, English and French. I was there for about a year. After that I came to Liberia in 1980. When I came, there was war in 1980. The new government had taken place.

Def: What happened?

Wit: Samuel Kanyon Doe had taken power.

Def: Did you attempt to gain employment?

Wit: Yes, I was invited by the commanding general of the army, Thomas Quiwonkpa to work at the Bureau of Reacquisition.

Def: What did that bureau do?

Wit: In charge of taking properties from officials of Tolbert’s government - the government that had been overthrown. Those properties were to be managed. That was the job, to return the properties to the proper owners.

Def: Did Quiwonkpa have a role in the coup?

Wit: Yes.

Def: Where were you assigned?

Wit: Nimba County.

Def: What were you to do?

Wit: Make sure the properties were returned to the rightful owner.

Judge Doherty: It’s time for the mid-morning break.

11:32 (12:02 with the delay in video and audio): Court adjourns. Proceedings will resume at 12:00.

 

May 13, 2008

The defense cross-examination of former Revolutionary United Front (RUF) commander Karmoh Kanneh continued throughout the court session today. Defense Counsel Terry Munyard highlighted numerous discrepancies between Kanneh’s testimony in court and notes from his previous statements to the prosecution. However, Munyard also sought to use portions of Kanneh’s testimony to support elements of the defense theory of the conflict.

A spokesperson for the Special Court for Sierra Leone notified journalists yesterday that the testimony of Charles Taylor’s former vice president, Moses Blah, is expected to begin on Wednesday. Blah will take the witness stand once Kanneh’s testimony is complete, but it is impossible to know when exactly that will be.

Inconsistent prior statements

Munyard spent most of his cross-examination today confronting the witness with notes from his prior statements to the prosecution. Kanneh explained multiple contradictions between his testimony in court and prosecution interview notes by saying that the prosecution had made mistakes. At times he even agreed with Munyard’s suggested possible explanation that the prosecution had invented inconsistent information in the earlier statements. Asked repeatedly why he had not made corrections to these notes when they were read back to him, Kanneh either denied that portions in question had been read back to him at all, or said that he had made a mistake in not following closely when these were read to him. Asked why he omitted to tell the prosecution about important details that emerged in his court testimony, at times Kanneh claimed to have told these things to the prosecution, which failed to include them in the interview notes. At other points he explained omissions by saying that a lot had happened in the conflict, and he was never able to say or remember everything in his interviews.

Inconsistencies highlighted by Munyard included the following:

• Kanneh testified in court that he had seen “Zigzag” Marzah eating human flesh in 1998. Although he agreed with Munyard that this was shocking and the most important thing he could tell people about Marzah, Munyard established that the information was not included in notes from any of Kanneh’s interviews with the prosecution. Kanneh insisted that he had told the prosecution. Munyard suggested that Kanneh had first learned of Marzah’s cannibalism through widespread news coverage of Marzah’s gruesome testimony in this case in March, but Kanneh said that he did not follow radio or printed news, and had not known about Marzah’s testimony.
• Kanneh testified that he had only seen “Zigzag” Marzah once in RUF territory, not three times, as stated in prosecution interview notes. He also denied telling prosecutors that Marzah mostly traveled together with “Jungle” to Sierra Leone. Asked whether prosecutors just made up those elements of the interview notes, Kanneh answered “yes”. Asked why he hadn’t corrected these falsehoods when the notes were read back to him, Kanneh said that perhaps he had not understood.
• Munyard produced prosecution notes from March 2008 reflecting Kanneh telling the prosecution that “Zigzag” Marzah accompanied General Ibrahim Bah to visit RUF leader Sam Bockarie in Buedu in 1998. Kanneh denied ever telling the prosecution that Marzah had come with Bah. Munyard pointed out that Kanneh had later made corrections to the same paragraph of the notes containing that sentence, and asked why Kanneh had not corrected this too, if it was wrong. Kanneh said he may not have understood.
• Kanneh testified that on his last visit to Liberia in August or September 2000, he had not gone for materials, had not gone with Issa Sesay, and that Sam Bockarie and Issa Sesay had not met on that occasion. Munyard read notes from a prior statement to the prosecution reflecting that Kanneh had earlier told the prosecution contradictory things about all of these points. Kanneh said that if he had said these things earlier, then they were mistakes.
• Kanneh testified that in 2000 Sam Bockarie told him that Charles Taylor had faced pressure from the international community to hand over Bockarie. According to Kanneh’s recounting of what Bockarie told him, Taylor was concerned about how much Bockarie knew of the connections between himself and the RUF. According to Kanneh’s testimony, Taylor worried that Bockarie might explain everything to the Special Court. Munyard pointed out that in 2000 the Special Court was not yet in existence.
• Kanneh testified that Issa Sesay passed an order to him from Charles Taylor not to allow disarmament to take place in Kailahun. Munyard confronted him with an earlier statement to the prosecution in which he stated that he did not know of any orders from Taylor during disarmament. Kanneh agreed that this was true, but after additional questioning it remained unclear how both of these contentions could be true.
• Kanneh testified that a meeting he had attended in Giema at which RUF leader Foday Sankoh spoke had taken place in late 1996. Munyard produced notes from one of Kanneh’s earlier statements to the prosecution which reflected him saying that it had been January or February 1997. Kanneh said that this was wrong, and denied that the prosecution had ever read that part of his statement back to him. Munyard noted that Kanneh had made corrections to notes from other parts of the same statement.
• Munyard read from notes of one of Kanneh’s interviews with the prosecution, which reported him saying that maps had been shown and discussed at a meeting in August or September 1998 in the bush outside of Buedu. Kanneh said that this had occurred at an earlier meeting, not this one. Asked whether the prosecution had invented the question and answer written in the notes, Kanneh said, “Yes, that’s the idea I’m going with.”
• Kanneh testified on Friday and again today that 12 rebel commanders attended a meeting at Sam Bockarie’s house in December 1998 at the end of which he said Bockarie had placed a call to Charles Taylor. Kanneh named some of the 12, but could not name all of them. Munyard read from prosecution notes of an earlier interview with Kanneh, which stated that there had been 16 commanders present at that meeting. Furthermore, one of the names Kanneh listed in court was not on the list of 16, and Kanneh said that four people on that list of 16 had definitely not attended the meeting. In addition to pointing out this contradiction, Munyard noted that Kanneh claimed SYB Rogers had not attended the meeting, while other witnesses had already placed him in the same meeting.
• In his testimony in court, Kanneh stated that he had spent one month in Tongo Field, but Munyard confronted him with notes from a prior statement showing that he had said it was two months. Kanneh said this was wrong, and agreed when Munyard asked if the prosecution had simply invented.

Was Saj Musa’s death ordered by Taylor?

Munyard spent considerable time reviewing Kanneh’s testimony about the December 1998 death of Saj Musa, a senior commander in the Armed Forces Revolutionary Council (AFRC). In the trial so far, the defense has highlighted witness testimony that Musa refused to take orders from senior RUF commander Sam Bockarie as evidence that the AFRC was not operating together with the RUF. The defense has sought to portray the Sierra Leone conflict as a civil war in which many of the worst atrocities, especially during the invasion of Freetown, were committed by former soldiers of the Sierra Leonean army rather than by the RUF, whose alleged connections to Taylor may be easier for the prosecution to prove. Kanneh is among the witnesses who testified that Saj Musa refused Bockarie’s orders. Further, he confirmed an earlier statement that Musa wanted to beat RUF units to Freetown in order to seize the city and become president of Sierra Leone himself instead of RUF leader Foday Sankoh.

However, Kanneh also testified that because of Musa’s refusal to cooperate with the RUF, Sam Bockarie complained to Charles Taylor about him. According to Kanneh’s testimony, Taylor advised Bockarie to have Saj Musa killed during a military operation. Kanneh said that indeed Musa had been died during a military operation - through an explosion in the town of Benguema in December 1998, shortly before the Freetown invasion.

Munyard asked why Kanneh had never previously told the prosecution about the plot to kill Musa, and Kanneh insisted he had. Prosecutor Julia Bailey noted that the notes cited by Munyard contained an incomplete sentence about the meeting beginning, “Sam Bockarie said…” and then breaking off. According to Bailey, it did not necessarily follow that the witness had said nothing from that point.

Support for the defense theory of the conflict

In addition to pointing out inconsistencies in Kanneh’s descriptions of events, Munyard appeared at times to use Kanneh to underscore elements of the defense theory of the conflict.

With regard to provision of arms and ammunition to the RUF, Munyard sought to underscore the provision of weapons from sources other than Liberia. Asked about arms shipments from Burkina Faso, Kanneh said he knew about an arms delivery to the RUF in late 1998, but that the material had come through Liberia and that its transport had been arranged by Charles Taylor. Munyard asked Kanneh if he knew anything about arms and ammunition arriving from Libya, and Kanneh said he didn’t.

Kanneh testified that as far as he knew, there had been no relationship between Taylor and the RUF between mid-1992 and 1996, when he saw Foday Sankoh introduce “Jungle” to a group of RUF commanders as being Charles Taylor’s “eye in the movement”. He agreed with Munyard that the anti-Taylor Liberian faction ULIMO had controlled the border between Sierra Leone and Liberia from mid-1992 until the end of Liberian disarmament in 1997.

Kanneh confirmed an earlier statement that during the December 1998 meeting with rebel commanders, Sam Bockarie had rejected a suggestion that fighters should be sought from Liberia due to past problems between the RUF and Taylor’s National Patriotic Front of Liberia (NPFL). Kanneh explained that Bockarie preferred to seek the assistance of former members of the disbanded anti-Taylor rebel movement ULIMO-K over that of Taylor’s NPFL. Kanneh agreed with Munyard that after Taylor’s 1997 election as president, the NPFL fighters were called the Armed Forces of Liberia.

The cross-examination of Karmoh Kanneh continues tomorrow morning at 9:30.

2:30 (3:00 with the delay in video and audio): Court is back in session following the lunch break.

Defense Counsel Terry Munyard continues his cross-examination of Karmoh Kanneh:

Def: On Friday you gave a list of people you said were at the meeting at Sam Bockarie’s house in December 1998, when you said there were 12 of you. These were the people you listed: Bockarie, Issa Sesay, Morris Kallon, Jungle. Is that right so far?

Wit: Four who were at the meeting?

Def: Just going through the 12…

Wit: Yes, those four were there.

Def: Eddie Kanneh, yourself, Major Francis, Matthew Barbue?

Wit: Yes.

Def: Junior Vandy, Chuckie (aka Bessay Gogbe - ph). Those were the names you gave us on Friday, then you said you were 12 in number. You remember?

Wit: Yes. There were 12 of us in the meeting.

Def: Let us look at what was recorded by the prosecution when you were telling them about the meeting.

Wit: Before going there, I would like to say something.

Judge Doherty: Is it in answer to the question?

Wit: I want to ask clarification. I’d like to know if the total went up to 12, because I was not counting when I told the names.

Def: You said you were 12 in number and gave the names you could recall. I don’t think you mentioned 12 people by name. You may not have remembered all of them on Friday, but you made plain that there were 12 of you.

Wit: Yes, that’s what I said. Because I said there were others.

Def: Let’s see what the prosecution have recorded. [references document] “Meeting took place from 11:00 to 2:00 AM. You said Mike Lamin, Sam Bockarie, SYB Rogers, Bessay Gobe, CO Lion, Jungle, Martin, Gaddafi (Foday), Issa Sesay, Jalloh, Tom Sandy, Rashid Sandy, Junior Vandy, [another], and Major Francis.” Did you tell the prosecution that 16 people were there?

Wit: No, and yesterday I even mentioned SYB Rogers.

Def: There’s no mention of Morris Kallon in that list from these notes. Was he there?

Wit: Morris Kallon was there.

Def: There’s no mention of Matthew Barbue. Was he at the meeting?

Wit: Yes.

Def: There are 16 names listed there, not 12.

Wit: There were 12 of us.

Def: Did you correct it when this was read back to you?

Wit: No. I did not know the number have gone beyond twelve.

Def: Did you not point out to them that Morris Kallon and Matthew Barbue were there?

Wit: I did not tell them that, but they were present.

Def: Did you tell the prosecution they were at the meeting?

Wit: There are some names in this list I did not give them, but there was Morris Kallon and Matthew Barbue as well. He spoke about CO Lion and I did not mention his name.

Judge Doherty: Are you referring to the prosecution or the court?

Wit: The prosecution.

Judge Sebutinde: Are you saying CO Lion was not at the meeting?

Wit: Not at all.

Def: So we should cross CO Lion off the list?

Wit: Yes.

Def: Let’s go through the list. Mike Lamin?

Wit: Yes, he was there.

Def: Mike Lamin was a very top level commander, wasn’t he? A general?

Wit: He did not get that rank.

Def: But he was one of the most senior figures in the movement?

Wit: Yes.

Def: Someone who spoke very strongly?

Wit: Yes.

Def: How is it you forgot him on Friday?

Wit: When I called the names, the names were not even up to 12. That’s why I said there were others.

Def: Sam Bockarie was there?

Wit: Yes.

Def: SYB Rogers?

Wit: Yes.

Def: You didn’t mention him on Friday.

Wit: I spoke about him on Friday.

Def: You did mention the man you know as Chuckie.

Wit: Yes, he was there.

Def: We cross out CO Lion. Jungle?

Wit: Yes.

Def: Martin?

Wit: Yes.

Def: Gaddafi, also known as Foday?

Wit: No.

Def: Who is he?

Wit: He was one of the battalion commanders at the Joru axis.

Def: Issa Sesay - you mentioned him?

Wit: Yes.

Def: What about Jalloh (MP)?

Wit: No, he was not there.

Def: Who was he?

Wit: A military police.

Def: Was Tom Sandy there?

Wit: No, he was in Kailahun.

Def: Rashid Sandy?

Wit: Yes.

Def: Junior Vandy?

Wit: Yes.

Def: Sam _____?

Wit: Yes.

Def: Francis?

Wit: Yes.

Def: Eddie Kanneh?

Wit: Yes.

Def: You mentioned him on Friday, but you didn’t tell the prosecution in November?

Wit: I told them, but they did not write it.

Def: They missed that one?

Wit: They added and deducted.

Def: When it was all read back to you, what did you say about inclusion of the ones who weren’t there?

Wit: I don’t know how they got it. I’m doubtful these men were in the group.

Def: Why are you doubtful?

Wit: I mentioned 12 names, and now I see others on the list, so I’m surprised.

Def: How could these names possibly been written down if you hadn’t said them?

Wit: I cannot tell how they managed to write it. Maybe they got the names from some other place.

Def: Did they have other people’s statements in front of them when they were interviewing you?

Wit: Never.

Def: Where could they have got some names from?

Wit: Even yourself, you have done that. I don’t know how you manage to get them.

Def: I get them from the prosecution, which wrote them down as coming from you.

Wit; I would like to know if they said I’d mentioned 16 names. I spoke about 12 all along, in my statements and even yesterday.

Def: Are you saying you didn’t realize that the prosecution got these names from you?

Wit: Yes.

Def: If it’s right that this is what you told them, how is it you gave them the names of four people who were nowhere near the meeting?

Wit: I have not even accepted that I was the one who gave them those four extra names. I gave the names I mentioned.

Def: You mean you accept the names you gave in evidence?

Wit: No.

Def: Was Isaac Mongor at this meeting?

Wit: No.

Def: Are you sure?

Wit: Yes. I did not see him.

Def: This is the meeting at which Bockarie tells you all about arms, ammunition and other items he brought back from Burkina Faso?

Wit: Yes.

Def: And there was only one such meeting with 12 senior RUF figures?

Wit: Yes.

Def: This is the meeting at which SYB Rogers was present?

Wit: Yes.

Def: Do you agree you didn’t list him on Friday when you were giving the list?

Wit: I mentioned him.

Def: Did SYB Rogers say anything you can remember at the meeting?

Wit: No.

Def: Did anyone praise Bockarie for bringing these materials?

Wit: Among the 12 of us?

Def: Yes.

Wit: I cannot recall. I’m not saying nobody did that, but I cannot recall.

Def: Were any photographs produced during the meeting?

Wit: There were no photographs.

Def: When do you say you saw the materials he brought back from Burkina Faso?

Wit: After the meeting, the following morning.

Def: Did you see any photos then?

Wit: No.

Def: Any photos of the hotel where he stayed in Burkina Faso?

Wit: No.

Def: Who did he say he’d gone with?

Wit: Gen. Ibrahim.

Def: Did SYB Rogers say he’d gone to Burkina Faso with Sam Bockarie on that trip to collect materials?

Wit: SB Rogers did not tell me that at that meeting.

Def: Were you at the whole meeting from start to finish?

Wit: Yes.

Def: SYB Rogers never said anything at all about being with Bockarie on that trip?

Pros: Objection. The witness said he didn’t hear Rogers say that, not that he didn’t say it.

Judge Doherty: I’ll allow the question.

Wit: I did not hear that.

Def: You are completely unaware that SYB Rogers was on that trip to Burkina Faso with Sam Bockarie?

Pros: I object. There’s no evidence of that.

Judge Doherty: It’s cross-examination. I’ll allow the question.

Def: There’s a significant body of evidence from other witnesses that SYB Rogers was on that trip, that he’d praised Bockarie at the meeting, and that they showed the photos of the hotel. Have you heard that Mr. Witness?

Wit: I did not hear those things.

Def: What was discussed about Saj Musa at that meeting?

Wit: Sam Bockarie spoke about Saj Musa. At first he described him as a traitor. He said he was a man who did not take orders. And he said the only way he would get him would be during an operation. He spoke about the discussion relating to Saj Musa that was between him and Gullit. Those were the most important things he said, even if I can’t recall others now.

Def: Let’s look at the record of what was discussed about Saj Musa. [references document] Question: “Was there discussion of Saj Musa at this meeting?” Your answer is recorded as “Sam Bockarie said…” and then it’s blank and goes to the next question. Question: “What was Bockarie’s reaction when Saj Musa died?” You said, “He was very happy because Saj Musa was blocking success of the RUF.” In November 2007, were you asked the question about Bockarie’s reaction when Saj Musa died?

Wit: Yes.

Def: Were you asked who killed Saj Musa?

Wit: Yes.

Def: Did you say there was a race between Saj Musa and Rambo to get to Freetown?

Wit: Yes.

Def: Did you go on to say that there was a big explosion and Saj Musa was killed?

Wit: Yes.

Def: Did you tell them this was something you heard but you weren’t actually there?

Wit: Yes.

Def: On the next page there is no mention of Saj Musa. The interview was resumed that afternoon and further to nighttime meeting at SB’s house, there are some more questions and answers on that page - they don’t deal with Saj Musa. On the next page there is no mention of Saj Musa. Then the following page deals with general questions and they don’t deal with Saj Musa. In the course of your evidence, you told us that rather more was discussed about Saj Musa at that meeting, didn’t you?

Wit: They spoke about Saj Musa issue in that meeting, and that mission was to be undertaken.

Def: You told us that Sam Bockarie said a complaint had gone up to Taylor about Saj Musa, and that Taylor had given his own advice. You remember saying that?

Wit: Yes.

Def: Why didn’t you tell that to the prosecution more than a year ago when you were asked about this meeting?

Wit: They did not ask a question about that.

Def: You were asked a question about whether there was discussion of Saj Musa at this meeting. You had an open-ended opportunity last November to tell the investigators and Mr. Santora everything about the discussion of Saj Musa.

Wit: I did not recall it at that moment.

Def: How could you possibly forget that you had decided you should go all out to ensure that Saj should not live to tell the story, if in fact that was said at that meeting?

Wit: You said it was an open question. They did not ask about Saj Musa’s issue. They did not ask me that.

Def: They asked if there was discussion of Saj Musa at the meeting. Why didn’t you say you’d discussed the complaint to Taylor about Saj, and that Bockarie said Saj should not live to tell the story?

Pros: I object to that question. [references document] The document says “Sam Bockarie said…” and then there’s nothing further recorded. It doesn’t follow that the witness said nothing. It’s unfair to put to this witness that he failed to answer that question when we don’t actually know what he said because it’s not recorded.

Def: Taking the recorded Q and A at face value the witness has said nothing else about Saj Musa at that time. There is no suggestion from this witness that he told them this and they failed to write it down. So it’s a perfectly fair question for me to put. When he was asked “who killed Saj Musa” he had another opportunity to tell the story.

Judge Doherty: Defense is entitled to put the question.

Def: Last Friday you told us a great deal about Saj Musa and what was discussed in the meeting about Saj Musa. You told us that the issue of clearing Makeni was discussed, who was in charge of the operation, and that Bockarie told Saj Musa before the attack on Kono, but he refused. You told us that?

Wit: Yes.

Def: He said he could not take orders from him, so there was a heated argument between them?

Wit: Yes.

Def: You were asked whether the argument took place during the meeting. You said yes, that Bockarie called him after the meeting, but there had been arguments even before the meeting.

Wit: Yes. I said that.

Def: Then you were asked what it was about Saj Musa that was discussed at the meeting. You said Bockarie told us that a complaint had gone up to Taylor and that he too gave his own piece of advice. You explained that Bockarie made the complaint to Taylor about Saj Musa’s attitude. Then you were asked if there was any further discussion about Musa at that meeting, and you said Bockarie made us to understand that that man should not live to tell the story. He said we should go all out to ensure that that man should not live to tell the story. You discussed the murder of Sam Bockarie at that meeting, didn’t you?

Wit: Saj Musa.

Def: Sorry.

Judge Doherty: For purposes of clarity, put that again.

Def: You discussed the murder of Saj Musa at Sam Bockarie’s house at that meeting in Decemeber 1998?

Wit: Yes.

Def: Not only that, you discussed the circumstances in which he should be killed?

Wit: Yes.

Def: On Friday you said “He said we should only be able to get them when there was a mission going on. He made us understand that he’d discussed it with Gullit. That man should not live - he was a traitor…he should die during the battle, he should be shot.” You said that on Friday?

Wit: Yes.

Def: You went on to say that this had all been discussed with Gullit and that Gullit did not actually say who should do the shooting, but that that was the plan. That was a very important issue, wasn’t it - the murder of a very senior AFRC figure?

Wit: Everything we discussed was important. It was one of the important things we discussed.

Def: So why didn’t you tell prosecutors that in November last year when they asked whether there was discussion of Saj Musa at the meeting, or when they asked who called Saj Musa?

Wit: I don’t know whether that question was asked of me - about Saj Musa. Maybe you should watch your paper again.

Def: I’m reading the paper now. You answered the question about who killed Saj Musa.

Wit: I heard the question that they asked me, I answered it. It’s not a lie.

Def: The answer you gave doesn’t include anything about Musa being shot during an operation, does it?

Wit: I believe that even Mrs. Bailey asked what they said when Saj Musa died. I said that they said a bomb exploded. But that was the plan that was already in place before.

Def: I’m asking about what you were asked last year. Has anyone ever suggested to you that somebody took advantage of the explosion at Benguema to shoot Saj Musa in the head?

Wit: No.

Def: The plan that you’ve told us about in your evidence, was that during a military operation someone was to shoot Saj dead?

Wit: It should be during a military operation that he should die, and he died during a military operation.

Def: That was the plan that you tell us was discussed in the meeting in December 1998, wasn’t it?

Wit: Yes.

Def: The very thing that happened?

Wit: Yes.

Def: You were told, according to the record of the interview, that you were told of the explosion that killed Saj Musa. Who told you about it?

Wit: They sent a message to Sam Bockarie and all of us monitored it.

Def: Who sent it?

Wit: Rambo sent it from Waterloo.

Def: The record of what you told the prosecution says “there was a big explosion and Saj Musa was killed”.

Wit: According to the message we got, the explosion killed Saj Musa. I was not there, but that was the plan.

Def: I’m going to move through the rest of the account you gave in November last year. The first question on this page is “At this meeting did Jungle or CO Lion say anything about Charles Taylor?” Do you remember being asked?

Wit: I remember about Jungle.

Def: Why do you think the prosecution asked about Jungle or CO Lion saying anything about Taylor if you didn’t tell them CO Lion was at the meeting.

Wit: I don’t recall mentioning CO Lion. I did not mention CO Lion.

Def: So when this question was asked, did you say, “Hang on a minute, CO Lion was not there.”?

Wit: If they had asked if CO Lion and Jungle were there together, I would have said CO Lion was not there. They only asked about Jungle.

Def: You were asked, “During the meeting, was there discussion about getting manpower support from Liberia?” The answer you gave is “Jungle, Morris Kallon and CO Lion suggested that.”

Wit: I did not mention Lion.

Def: Morris Kallon is not one of the 16 names we looked at earlier when you answered the question who was there, so that would make 17 names, if indeed you did say those first 16, wouldn’t it?

Wit: Who is the 17th?

Def: Morris Kallon.

Wit: No, even among that 12 people, there is Morris Kallon.

Def: The rest of the answer is “Bockarie rejected this because of past problems when the NPFL came.” Did you say that?

Wit: Yes.

Def: That he did agree that the force would come from the NPFL?

Wit: Yes I said that.

Def: “Bockarie was OK with ULIMO-K assistance”?

Wit: He said he preferred ULIMO-K to the NPFL. That is what I mentioned.

Def: Were ULIMO-K still in existence in December 1998?

Wit: No, but their members were still around.

Def: So Bockarie was saying he did not want manpower support from Liberia?

Wit: From NPFL? Yes, it’s correct.

Def: For NPFL in 1998, do you mean the Armed Forces of Liberia?

Wit: Yes, Mr. Taylor’s troops.

Def: So Bockarie rejected the idea of support from Mr. Taylor’s troops?

Wit: Yes.

Def: On the next page, “Further to nighttime meeting at SB’s house. Q: Was there any discussion about civilians? Your answer: There was no discussion about civilians.” Were you asked that and did you give that answer?

Wit: Yes.

Def: I want to ask more about the ending of the meeting. When you spoke about this earlier in your evidence, you said you heard Bockarie and Jungle speak to Mr. Taylor on the satellite phone. How did you know it was Mr. Taylor?

Wit: Before the discussion, Bockarie already told us that he was trying to call Mr. Taylor.

Def: Before the discussion?

Wit; Before he called he told us that.

Def: You said before “they told us they were talking to Mr. Taylor.”

Wit: That is the same.

Def: If they were talking to Mr. Taylor, why would they need to tell you?

Wit: We were in a meeting. Before he called he told us that he was now trying to call Mr. Taylor.

Def: By what name did they call Mr. Taylor?

Wit: They called him Mr. Taylor or Ghankay Taylor.

Def: What did you hear them say?

Wit: The time they called him Ghankay Taylor? It was many times since the RUF started.

Def: I want to ask a series of questions about different matters. But before I do, there’s one other matter relating to Saj Musa. [references document] This is the last time you were interviewed by prosecutors here in The Hague - 23 April of this year. “Saj Musa then left and went as far as Waterloo and he was trying to enter Freetown. Bockarie instructed Sesay to descend on Masiaka and keep defensive. But Musa had gone ahead and there was another conflict between Musa and Bockarie. He announced that he would take Freetown and become president.” Who would take Freetown and become president?

Wit: Saj Musa.

Def: So he wanted President Musa instead of President Sankoh?

Wit: Yes.

Def: How did he announce this?

Wit: We all used the same frequency. So normally we monitored the frequency and we got it through there.

Def: So everyone in the RUF and AFRC would have heard Saj Musa say that he was going to take Freetown and install himself as president?

Wit: All of us who were on the radio listening to the frequency when that message came - we all heard it.

Def: Are you able to give us the names of anyone else whom you believe heard this?

Wit: Yes. Sam Bockarie, Issa Sesay - those are the ones I can recall for now. I overheard their discussion.

Def: What was the reaction of Sam Bockarie to Musa announcing that he wanted to make himself president?

Wit: An argument ensued amongst the two of them. Later he also discussed with Issa about this man’s attitude.

Def: “Saj and Bockarie insulted each other over the radio.” Did you say that?

Wit: Yes.

Def: “Sesay was trying to liaise with new commanders so they could unite and take the city. There was a power struggle as to who should take the place of Saj Musa. This led to the failure to take Freetown.” You said this?

Wit: Yes.

Def: So it was this power struggle and not the military opposition that led to the rebels’ failure to take the entire town of Freetown?

Wit: It was the struggle, the power struggle they had amongst themselves. That was the reason.

Def: “On 6 January 1999, those who initially entered Freetown were mainly AFRC, with just some RUF.” Did you tell them that?

Wit: Yes.

Def: This was all part of what you describe as “Operation Free The Leader”?

Wit: Yes.

Def: And the number one objective of the operation was to indeed free the leader?

Wit: Yes.

Def: I’ll now go through some individual points with you. These aren’t necessarily connected subjects. You told us that someone called FOC was present at a meeting at the EMG ground. You remember?

Wit: Yes.

Def: You told us that FOC was Sankoh’s bodyguard?

Wit: Yes.

Def: Are you sure that he was Foday Sankoh’s bodyguard?

Wit: Yes.

Def: Was he ever anyone else’s bodyguard?

Wit: He was attached as a commander, but he never was a bodyguard to another person.

Def: You told us that after the overthrow, you received instructions from Sankoh, and that you first moved with Bockarie to Pendembu, Daru, then Benguema?

Wit; Yes.

Def: That in the morning you’d go with Bockarie in Freetown, then return in the evening?

Wit: Yes.

Def: Part of your task was to clear the road to Bo?

Wit: Part of my job? When I was in Benguema, part of my work was to go to Freetown and return, and part of my work was to clear the highway.

Def: You said that one of the things you had to do was to clear the road to Bo?

Wit: I joined Sam Bockarie to clear the road.

Def: The road to where?

Wit: From Freetown to Kenema.

Def: Do you agree you said Bo at one point?

Wit: Bo is between Freetown and Kenema.

Def: Indeed, at one point you said you were trying to divert the enemy’s attention on the Bo-Kenema highway?

Wit: Yes.

Def: Bo is very different place than Bo-Waterside?

Wit: Yes.

Def: [references document] This is the interview from 31 October last year: “Witness states that after arriving in Freetown, he was assigned to Bintumani area…stayed there for a month…then assigned by JPK to clear the road to Bo Waterside.” Did you say that?

Wit: He was not the one who assigned me. He gave the order to Bockarie.

Def: Did you say your assignment was to clear the road to Bo Waterside?

Wit: That was the mission we undertook. It was not an assignment.

Def: Was it Bo or Bo Waterside?

Wit: Both Bos are in there.

Def: Where?

Wit: The other Bo is the city of the city of the south town province. The other is on the border to Liberia.

Def: Bo-Waterside is not on the Freetown-Kenema highway, is it?

Wit: Not at all.

Def: But Bo is?

Wit: Yes.

Def: What was the mission you were given? To clear the road from Freetown to Kenema or to Bo-Waterside?

Wit: To clear the road to Bo-Waterside.

Def: Shortly after you told us about that in your earlier evidence, you gave evidence about mining. Do you remember telling us that in Tongo Field you were there for one month?

Wit: Yes.

Def: Was it just one month, or could it have been two months?

Wit: One month.

Def: Are you quite sure of that?

Wit: Yes.

Def: [references document] “Witness stated he did not recall Liberians visiting Jungle at Cyborg.” Did you say that?

Wit: Yes.

Def: So Cyborg Field is the mining field at Tongo?

Wit: Yes.

Def: “Witness was not present the entire time and left back to Kenema Town after about two months.”

Wit: I spent one month in Tongo.

Def: Did you tell the prosecution that you spent about two months there?

Wit: No.

Def: So that’s something they’ve invented, did they?

Wit: Yes.

Def: You went back to Kenema Town before “Black December”. What do you mean?

Wit: That was a CDF operation to overrun us together with the AFRC.

Def: Did that operation succeed?

Wit: No.

Judge Sebutinde: Are you saying the CDF were acting with the AFRC?

Wit: To overrun us.

Judge Sebutinde: Are you suggesting the CDF were working with the AFRC?

Wit: No.

Def: You told us in your evidence earlier that you and Jungle and somebody else saw diamonds being parceled in a two-story building in Tongo?

Wit: Yes.

Def: Why were you there?

Wit: Whether I saw diamonds parceled? Yes, we parceled them.

Def: Why you? You were a senior officer at this stage.

Wit: I was supposed to give report to Mr. Bockarie at that time.

Def: You personally took part in packaging them up?

Wit: We were all present. The diamond came to me first before I sent it to Bockarie. So I took part.

Def: But why you. You said your job was a military job and not a mining job. Why were you involved?

Wit: I was not involved in the mining, but when the diamonds were brought to me, I would have to involve myself. Bockarie was also a military man involved in diamonds. But I was not supervising the mining.

Def: Going back to the issue of the Black Gaddafa group - you remember you told us that this idea was an idea of Mr. Taylor’s? That he formed you into the Black Gaddafa group at Bomi Hills and that he provided the name?

Wit: Yes.

Def: You know King Perry?

Wit: Yes. I know one King Perry.

Def: King Perry Kamara?

Wit: Yes.

Def: Can you remember if he was in the Black Gaddafa group?

Wit: No.

Def: General Dry Peppe and Devon, they were involved when it was first set up?

Wit: Yes.

Def: Do you know a county called Cape Mount County in Liberia?

Wit: Yes.

Def: Do you know a district called Kporpor (ph)?

Wit: No.

Def: Would this be right? [reading] “General Devon and General Peppe came with arms and ammunition in trucks together with food. They said it was Taylor who organized us so we could fight back to Sierra Leone. There we got the name of the unit. We called it Black Gaddafa.” Do you agree that the unit got its name at a meeting in Kporpor district in Cape Mount County?

Wit: I don’t even know Kporpor district in Cape Mount County. Liberia is a place I don’t understand much. No.

Def: So it’s wrong to suggest that the Black Gaddafa was set up there?

Wit: Quite wrong.

Def: That it was set up by Generals Devon and Peppe without the presence of Taylor?

Wit: No.

Def: You said the Black Gaddafa unit consisted of 500 men?

Wit: 250 men.

Def: That they never split up into smaller units?

Wit; No.

Def: Did they ever go to Kakata?

Wit: No.

Def: You were asked about the killing of B.S. Massaquoi by Ms. Bailey?

Wit: Yes.

Def: [references document] “Witness states that this killing took place at Kenema Town around the time of the intervention…witness was present along with Sam Bockarie, [others]…” Did you say that?

Wit: Yes.

Judge Doherty: We’ve run out of time.

4:30 (5:00 with delay in video and audio): Court is adjourning for the day. Proceedings will resume tomorrow morning at 9:30.

12:00 (12:30 with the delay in video and audio): Court is back in session following the mid-morning break.

Defense Counsel Terry Munyard continues his cross-examination of prosecution witness Karmoh Kanneh:

Def: We were looking at the meeting attended by Foday Sankoh. This is the meeting at Sam Bockarie’s house. Was Mike Lamin present at that meeting?

Wit: No.

Def: Do you know Isaac Mongor?

Wit: Yes.

Def: Who was he in the 1990s?

Wit: I didn’t know him in 1990.

Def: What was his role in 1997?

Wit: One of the RUF commanders.

Def: Did you know him well?

Wit: Yes, I know him.

Def: You know him well?

Wit; I know him, even if not very well.

Def: He also knew you?

Wit: Yes.

Def: At that meeting, was the question of arms and ammunition discussed?

Wit: Which meeting?

Def: The one we’re talking about that Foday Sankoh came to.

Wit: Yes, we discussed materials at the meeting.

Def: Did Sankoh say where he was going to obtain materials from?

Wit: No, he was not going for materials.

Def: This was just after the Abidjan Peace Accords?

Wit: yes.

Def: Why were you discussing arms then?

Wit; Even the government was pursuing two tracks. The Kamajors attacked us too. Even if it was a peace time, we had a right to discuss materials.

Judge Sebutinde: Are you saying the Kamajors were fighting for the government?

Wit: Yes.

Def: The government was party to the accords, but it had Kamajors fighting for it?

Wit: Yes.

Def: So the government was not honoring the Abidjan Peace Accord?

Wit: Yes.

Def: You said during the course of that meeting, that someone said, “even though I am going for peace, we should be ready for war”. Who said that?

Wit: Foday Sankoh.

Def: I don’t think you said it was Foday Sankoh when you gave evidence on this.

Wit: You’ve got that wrong.

Def: This is the occasion when you said Jungle was present and “buttressed” everything Bockarie said to Taylor. You remember saying that?

Wit: I did not say that.

Def: You remember using the expression three times that when Sam Bockarie spoke to Taylor after the meeting, Jungle “buttressed” Bockarie’s words?

Wit: Which meeting?

Def: At that meeting.

Prosecutor Julia Bailey: That is not the evidence. The evidence about buttressing was about an earlier meeting, during the formation, not at the meeting in Giema.

Def: I thought I’d started with the first meeting, which was at Giema.

Pros: There was an 8 hour meeting, then a three hour meeting some months after this.

Def: I’m looking at my handwritten note, which suggests that “Jungle buttressed what the Pa had said.” Whether that was at the formation before the meeting or during the meeting, I’ll have to check the transcript.

Pros: The reference to Pa at times refers to Sankoh, and at other times to Taylor.

Judge Lussick: Sometimes it refers to Issa Sesay too.

Pros: That’s right. But counsel said it referred to Bockarie.

Def: Let me just check the transcript. [pause] You gave a list of the people who were there.

Judge Doherty: Are we talking about the Giema meeting?

Def: Yes, Giema was the first of the three meetings. There’s Giema, then Water Works, and then the third meeting is at a later stage, which must be at Sam Bockarie’s premises. I want to ask you, and I think you did say that it was Foday Sankoh who said that although he’d signed the peace, you had to prepare for war. I want to ask about this word buttress. Do you agree that you used the word “buttressed”? You said Jungle “buttressed what the Pa said”. Why was there a need for Jungle to buttress what the Pa said?

Wit: Jungle was Taylor’s representative in the RUF.

Def: Had you seen Jungle before this date?

Wit: Yes.

Def: What was he before he was made Taylor’s representative?

Wit: He was NPFL. He and others came with the war.

Def: Are you saying he’s now become Mr. Taylor’s representative?

Wit: Yes.

Def: Did Taylor have another representative before Jungle?

Wit: No.

Def: So why did he suddenly need a representative?

Wit: I can’t know that. I was unable to ask Sankoh about why he’s made this man the Pa’s representative.

Judge Sebutinde: Sankoh made Jungle the Pa’s representative?

Wit: It was Sankoh who told us. He said Jungle was Taylor’s eye in the movement.

Def: This is right at the beginning of 1997 or at the end of 1996?

Wit: It was the end of 1996.

Def: How were relations between the RUF and Mr. Taylor between 1993-1997?

Wit: As far as I know, from mid-1992 up to 1996, there was no relationship between the RUF and Mr. Taylor, as far as I know.

Def: What changed that situation as far as you are aware?

Wit: It was the infiltration by ULIMO into NPFL territory. When it took the border, it cut off communication to Taylor.

Def: Cut off physical connections, but that wouldn’t cut off personal communications?

Wit: Yes

Def: But personal communications were also cut off?

Wit: What I know what was happening openly, that is what I’m talking about.

Def: Are you familiar with a series of operations, Tap 20, Tap 40, Tap Final?

Wit: I knew later.

Def: At the time, 1992, are you aware that there was major fighting between NPFL and RUF in Sierra Leone?

Wit: Yes.

Def: So why are you saying you became aware of them later?

Wit: This Tap Tap you’re talking about happened in the second battalion and I came in the first.

Def: Are you aware that there was no personal connection between the RUF and Mr. Taylor from mid-1992 until after Mr. Taylor’s election as president of Liberia in the middle of 1997?

Wit: That’s what I said, that we’d lost links from 1992 up until 1996.

Def: Do you know what Mr. Taylor was engaged in in December 1996 or February 1997?

Wit: No.

Def: Do you have any knowledge about what was happening in Liberia at that same period?

Wit: No.

Def: Do you know about the collective presidency in Liberia in 1996-1997?

Wit: No.

Def: Do you know about the election that was being organized in Liberia in the beginning of 1997?

Wit: No.

Def: How is it that you say Mr. Sankoh started creating a connection after the big breakdown in relations between the two.

Wit: It was that time that he came and presented that particular man to us - that he was Taylor’s eye in the RUF.

Def: Do you know how Mr. Sankoh went to Abidjan to get to the peace talks?

Wit: He left Zogoda. I was in Kailahun. I was unable to know how he went.

Def: Did anyone tell you?

Wit: No.

Def: Nobody has suggested to you that he went via Liberia?

Wit: No.

Def: If I suggest to you that he went by a route that involved him not stopping in Liberia, you couldn’t contradict that, could you?

Wit: Yes.

Def: I think the ambiguous nature of the answer means we can move to somewhere else. You said ULIMO cut off the border area from mid-1992. Were you aware that ULIMO were still in control of the border up to July 1997?

Wit: Yes, up until the end of disarmament.

Def: Liberian disarmament?

Wit: Yes.

Def: So you did become aware of the elections in Liberia?

Wit: Yes.

Def: How did you used to hear?

Wit: Thourgh the BBC.

Def: This is the BBC that you no longer listen to?

Wit: It’s news. You can listen or not.

Def: Have you listened to Focus on Africa quite often?

Wit: No.

Def: After that meeting at Giema, off goes Mr. Sankoh. Where do you go after that?

Wit: When Mr. Sankoh went, he left us in Giema.

Def: What did you do in pursuance of the peace agreement?

Wit: They said we should cease fire and we ceased fire. When they started firing against us, we started fighting.

Def: When was that?

Wit: 1996.

Def: When in 1996?

Wit: I can’t remember the date.

Def: Do you know when the peace agreement was?

Wit: No, I can’t remember now.

Def: It was 30 November 1996. Are you saying that government-supported Kamajors broke the peace agreement in the four weeks afterwards?

Wit: Yes.

Def: And they broke the agreement first?

Wit: Yes.

Def: Where was it that they broke the peace agreement?

Wit: Koribundo Jungle.

Def: And all the RUF did was respond to the breach of the peace agreement?

Wit: The RUF did not attack, they defended.

Def: I want to ask about the second meeting near the waterworks. Near Buedu, but in the bush?

Wit: Yes.

Def: This was before Bockarie went to Burkina Faso?

Wit: Yes.

Def: How long before?

Wit: I can’t remember the dates but it was after Abacha’s death that we held this meeting.

Def: Abacha died in June 1998. How long after Abacha’s death was this meeting?

Wit: It was after June. It could be around August or September.

Def: Why was the meeting held in the bush?

Wit: We were afraid of the ECOMOG air raid.

Def: Was it you who told the prosecutors about this meeting first, or did the prosecution tell you they understood there had been a meeting and ask you questions about it.

Wit; I can’t remember whether I told him or he asked.

Def: I don’t think there’s anything in your statements before November 2007 about a meeting in the bush near Buedu.

Wit: If there’s anything in my statements?

Def: I don’t think there’s anything in your statements before November 2007 about a meeting in the bush near Buedu.

Wit: I said it was around August or September.

Def: [references document]

Judge Doherty: You have referred to November and he’s saying August/September. Is he talking about the interview or the meeting.

Def: It must be the meeting, because there were no interviews in August-September.

Def: It says here: “Following questions regarding Buedu meeting: after SB came back from Burkina Faso and after Issa Sesay lost the diamonds” Later that was corrected to “before SB came back”. Up to this point, as far as I can tell, you’d never mentioned a meeting at Buedu, so how did the topic of the meeting at Buedu come into your discussion with the prosecution on 1 November last year. Did they first mention it?

Wit: He had been asking that. I said read the statement so I know what happened. I know we had a meeting before the Fitti Fata operation. I cannot tell whether they brought it up or they did. By reading the statements you should know.

Def: Were you ever asked to comment about events that the prosecution brought up: for example were you ever asked “did you know about a meeting in Buedu in the bush before Sam Bockarie went to Burkina Faso”?

Wit: It’s on paper. I can’t remember.

Def: [references page] You were asked whether there were maps there. You said, “yes, maps of Sierra Leone”. Were you able to look at and read the maps of Sierra Leone?

Wit: Is that a question or an explanation you were making?

Def: Were you able to read and understand those maps?

Wit: Where is this map talk? You are trying to bring these meetings together. The area I spoke about maps was the meeting at Sam Bockarie’s place. So you’re confusing events.

Def: Are you saying that no maps were produced at the Water Works meeting?

Wit: Not at all. I did not mention that.

Def: Someone’s written down the question. Were the questions and answers written as the interview was conducted?

Wit: Yes.

Def: Were they doing it in handwriting?

Wit: Yes.

Def: Was the person doing that Mr. Streeter?

Wit: Yes.

Def: There’s a question there: “Were there maps there?” And he wrote you said, “Yes, maps of Sierra Leone.”

Wit: It was not at that meeting. I spoke about maps, but not at the Water Works meeting.

Def: Did you correct this when it was read to you?

Wit: No.

Def: Why didn’t you correct it?

Wit: Is it in relation to Water Works?

Def: Are you saying they’ve invented the question and answer?

Wit: Yes, that’s the idea I’m going with.

Def: You were asked: “What was discussed at the meeting?” It’s recorded “The target was to hit…” and then that’s crossed out. Was there a target discussed?

Wit: Yes.

Def: What was the target?

Wit: Kono.

Def: You say in the rest of the course of the answer: “Then there was discussion of the Saj Musa problem.” What was discussed about the Saj Musa problem?

Wit; His disloyalty, that he refused to take orders. Sam Bockarie put that across.

Def: What was said about how to deal with the problem?

Wit: No conclusion was reached about the Saj Musa problem at the Water Works meeting.

Def: Was Jungle at this meeting?

Wit: Yes.

Def: Did he give any instructions from Taylor at the meeting?

Wit: He did not give an order.

Def: What was the time that this meeting took place?

Wit: I can’t remember the date, but it was during the day.

Def: This is the Water Works meeting?

Wit: Yes.

Def: How long did it take?

Wit: We took up to nine hours.

Def: Was this the meeting where it was decided that the AFRC should be secondary to the RUF?

Wit: Yes.

Def: Did you tell the prosecutors that when you were telling them what had been discussed at that meeting?

Wit: I did this statement you are reading together with the prosecution. Yes.

Def: Did you tell the prosecution that it was in the course of that that meeting that it had been decided that the AFRC should be under the command of the RUF?

Wit: Yes, I told them that. It’s in my statement.

Def: [references document] Did you tell them about the diamonds lost by Issa Sesay?

Wit: Yes.

Def; And that there was then discussion about command structure?

Wit: Yes.

Def: Then the Saj Musa problem, which we’ve just discussed. In that interview, you didn’t tell them what was discussed about the command structure?

Wit: I told them.

Def: There is nothing in the rest of these notes about the command structure decision. You haven’t told them anything about this important decision that the RUF were now in charge and the AFRC were now there deputies. Do you agree that you didn’t tell them what that discussion about the command structure involved?

Wit: I told them.

Def: I’ll be corrected if it turns out that you did tell them, but I suggest that it doesn’t appear anywhere in the notes. How was that particular instruction distributed to the RUF and AFRC?

Wit: Sam Bockarie wrote it and sent it to all stations through the air.

Def: The written instruction was sent to all stations?

Wit: Yes.

Def: All stations got a piece of paper from Sam Bockarie?

Wit: Even if it were 20 radios, all the stations can come to the same frequency and get the instruction.

Def: It went over the radio?

Wit: He wrote it and it went out over the radio.

Def: Was it sent in code or in ordinary language?

Wit: I’m not a signal man. I don’t know if they coded it or just sent it.

Def: But it went to all stations?

Wit: Yes.

Def: Who was at that meeting from the AFRC?

Wit: Johnny Paul was there. Eddie Kanneh was there. Akim Turay was there. Gullit was there. And some others.

Def: Why wasn’t Saj Musa there?

Wit; Even in Kono, Saj Musa had not even come to Kono. Saj Musa was in the northern area.

Def: When do you say this meeting was held?

Wit: Water Works - between there and Buedu.

Def: When, not where.

Wit: I think it was after Abacha’s death, about June, almost at the end of 2008.

Judge Sebutinde: It can’t be 2008.

Wit: Sorry, 2009.

Def; I think you’ve skipped a decade.

Wit: He [referring to defense counsel] is also liable to make mistakes. I’m also a human being. I’m sorry for the mistake.

Judge Doherty: So when was it?

Wit: It was after June.

Def: This was the very long meeting, yes?

Wit: Yes.

Def: [references document] Is this what you told the prosecution, Mr. Mongor?

Wit: Kanneh, not Mongor.

Def: Mr. Kanneh, did you tell the prosecution that you believed in terms of the timing of the meeting that it was after the intervention, after Issa Sesay dropped the diamonds, and before Sani Abacha died?

Wit: After Abacha died.

Def: So that’s wrong?

Wit: Yes.

Def: If it was before, it would have to be the beginning of June, or May or even earlier?

Wit: Yes.

Def: Isaac Mongor was present at the meeting?

Wit: Yes.

Def: Did you and he speak at all to each other?

Wit: We did not personally discuss, but he was a senior man. Yes, I greeted him.

Def: Was he Liberian or Sierra Leonean?

Wit: Liberian.

Def: At the time, Sam Bockarie was about to go to Burkina Faso?

Wit: It was from that meeting that we knew about his going to Burkina Faso.

Def; Who was going to go to Burkina Faso with him?

Wit: Gen. Ibrahim Bah.

Def: Do you know why?

Wit; He was supposed to go with him according to what Bockarie told us.

Def: Why was it that Ibrahim Bah was going to go to Burkina Faso with Sam Bockarie?

Wit: I did not ask them that.

Def: Did you know that Ibrahim Bah was an arms dealer?

Wit: No.

Def: Has anyone ever suggested to you that Ibrahim Bah was a businessman who bought and sold weapons?

Wit: No.

Def: Never?

Wit: Not at all.

Def: How often did you see Ibrahim Bah?

Wit: Since I was in that movement, I only saw him two times.

Def: No one has ever suggested to you that he might have a business in arms dealing?

Wit: Not a day.

Def: Was there any suggestion that SYB Rogers would go to Burkina Faso with Sam Bockarie?

Wit: No.

Def: Musa Cisse?

Wit: No, I don’t even know him.

Def: Have you ever heard of him?

Wit: No.

Def: Have you ever heard of a group of countries in West Africa called the Group of Five?

Wit: No.

Def: Have you ever heard of ECOWAS, the West African economic union?

Wit: Yes.

Def; What do you understand it to be?

Wit: By my understanding, African states came together and formed the unity, to form ECOWAS.

Def: Do you know what the ECOWAS countries were doing in 1998 to try and bring peace to Sierra Leone?

Wit: Yes. Even for Sierra Leone to gain peace was more from their contribution to enhance peace in Sierra Leone.

Def: Do you know what role Burkina Faso was officially playing in the peace efforts of ECOWAS?

Wit: No.

Def: Sam Bockarie was going to Burkina Faso to get arms?

Wit: That’s what he told us during that meeting.

Def: At the end of that meeting, I think you told us that Jungle buttressed what Sam Bockarie had said?

Wit: Yes.

Def: Was Fitti Fata discussed at that meeting?

[Brief disruption in video/audio feed.]

Wit: …It was at night.

Def: What time of year?

Wit: It should be around December.

Judge Sebutinde: Of which year?

Wit: 1998.

Def: What time of night was this meeting?

Wit: Around 9:00 or 10:00.

Def: You said when you were giving evidence…

[Brief disruption in video/audio]

Def: [reading from document] We see this refers to the time after Sam Bockarie returned from Burkina Faso. It says you were asked, “Was there another meeting held with Sam Bockarie at night?” Were you asked that?

Wit: Yes, this is the meeting you are trying to talk about.

Def: It’s recorded that you said: “Yes, it took place from 11:00 to 2:00AM.”

Wit: If I said so, then I’m sorry.

Def: So you agree it was 11:00?

Wit: Yes, let’s take the 11:00.

Def: You think the evidence you gave nearer the time of the event is more accurate than what you said in court?

Wit: No.

Def: It was after this meeting ended that you all gathered around on the verandah and a phone call was made to Mr. Taylor?

Wit: Yes.

Def: At 2:00 in the morning on a night in December 1998, you colleagues decided to call Taylor, wake him up and give him the news of the meeting?

Wit: It was not the commanders. It was Sam Bockarie.

Def: Sam Bockarie rang him at 2:00 in the morning?

Wit: Yes.

Def: What was Mr. Taylor’s job at this time?

Wit: He was president of Liberia.

Def: Was it discussed at all whether Bockarie should call the president at 2:00 in the morning or could wait until the next day?

Wit: No.

Def: Did this call take place?

Wit: Yes.

Def: This is the group of 12?

Wit: Yes.

Def: You told us on a number of occasions that there were 12 of you in this particular meeting. Were all 12 of you on the verandah for the call to Taylor at 2:00 in the morning?

Wit: Yes, it was during the meeting.

Def: You told us earlier it was after the meeting ended. Are you now saying it was during the meeting?

Wit: We did not scatter. This call went on immediately after the meeting.

Def: How did you know it was Mr. Taylor whom Sam Bockarie was talking to?

Wit: He told us he called President Taylor for him to give details about the meeting.

Def: You wouldn’t need him to tell you that if you were all gathered round for the call, would you?

Wit: I did not say he told us that he called Mr. Taylor. He said he’s calling Mr. Taylor. I did not say he said that he’d called Mr. Taylor.

Def: I just read the very words you used from the transcript.

Wit: He said he was going to call.

Def: Who was it who called Mr. Taylor?

Wit: Sam Bockarie.

Def: Anyone else?

Wit: He spoke with somebody else, but he was the one who called him.

Def: Who was the someone else he spoke with?

Wit: Jungle.

Def: Doing another bit of buttressing?

Wit: Yes.

Def: Why was it necessary?

Wit: For us to have confidence about what was said about Jungle - that he was the Pa’s eye there.

Def: I want to go through the 12 people who were there. We can see the participants [references transcript].

1:30 (2:00 with the delay in video and audio): Court is adjourning for the lunch break. Proceedings will resume at 2:30.

9:33 (10:03 with the delay in video and audio): Court is in session.

Defense Counsel Terry Munyard continues his cross-examination of prosecution witness Karmoh Kanneh:

Def: You were telling us yesterday that you had been in Liberia on two occasions fighting against LURD. It was on the first of those occasions in 1998 that you saw Zigzag Marzah eating human flesh. When in 1998?

Wit: That was the first mission I spoke about, when I went with Sam Bockarie.

Def: When in 1998 was this first mission to fight the LURD?

Wit: That happened just after the intervention, around April, around that time.

Def: Around April 1998, LURD have invaded Liberia and you’re on a mission there to fight them?

Wit: Yes.

Def: I suggest that LURD did not invade Liberia until 1999. Do you think you may have the facts wrong by a whole year?

Wit: No, it was in 1998, just after the intervention that they invaded.

Def: When did you first tell the prosecution about seeing Zigzag Marzah having a dinner of human flesh?

Wit: I told the prosecution I saw Zigzag at the time of the attack.

Def: When did you first tell the prosecution you saw him eating human flesh?

Wit: I can’t recall, but it is in my statements. Different people took different statements.

Def: What did you tell the prosecution about Zigzag Marzah eating human flesh?

Wit: They asked me whether I knew him, and I said yes. During my explanation, I made those comments. They asked how I knew him and I explained.

Def: Had you ever seen any other person eating human flesh before this incident with Marzah?

Wit: That was my first time to see that happen.

Def: And since that time?

Wit: No.

Def: Is it fair to say that it was a very shocking sight to you?

Wit: Too much.

Def: I think you’re agreeing with me that it was a shocking sight?

Wit: Yes.

Def: Something that would never have gone out of your mind?

Wit: Not at all.

Def: Would you agree it is th